Primele informații despre ghildele din GW2

Căutați o ghildă sau vreți să vă creați una? Aici găsiți mai multe informații despre ghildele din GW2.

Primele informații despre ghildele din GW2

Mesajde Tudy » 05 Sep 2011, 01:07

Anul acesta la PAX Prime am avut parte de primele informații oficiale legate de modul de funcționare a ghildelor în GW2. Partea relevantă a panel-ului e aici:




Pe scurt, ce se știe până acum legat de ghilde sunt informațiile prezente și în wiki-ul oficial:

Citat:
Guilds are formal groupings of players. Guilds will be available to players from near the start of the game, will not be racially-exclusive, and you may join as many guilds as you would like per account. When a character logs in, it will be able to choose which guild it would like to represent. While representing that guild you will appear active on the guild roster and have access to the guild chat. Guild membership will also allow greater out-of-group interactivity, with guild members being easily located on a map, current activities visible on the guild roster, and other ways to keep track of fellow guildmates.

Guilds will be able to work towards guild achievements. As guilds do things together in the world, they earn influence. Guilds are able to spend influence on many things such as guild storage, a calendar, and experience flags. Guilds are also able to claim keeps in WvW. They will be able to fly their guild flag from the keep and use influence to upgrade their keep, fortifying it against attacks.

Out-of-game support for guilds will be also be implemented, with a guild calendar allowing guilds to coordinate events across timezones, guild chat accessible from web browsers, and smartphone apps that will be available for free.

Care credeți că va fi impactul faptului că poți fi membru în mai multe ghilde simultan, spre exemplu? Cei de la TalkTyria au și ei un articol interesant pe tema asta: http://www.talktyria.net/2011/09/04/gui ... -2-guilds/

Voi ce părere aveți?

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Re: GW2 - Guilds

Mesajde Cosmo » 05 Sep 2011, 04:02

Mi se pare inca o idee exceptionala care abordeaza o problema veche intr-un mod simplu, si incredibil de eficient. Baietii astia stiu treburi.

Uneori vreau sa PvP serios, alteori vreau sa fac niste dungeonuri, alteori doar sa ajut niste persoane cu eventuri etc. Puteam sa fac asta ca si pana acum in GW1 sau orice alt MMO, dar acum am un motiv in plus sa ma adun cu lume diferita datorita bonusurilor oferite ghildei si care ajung la ghilda. In plus, in momentul in care se face mai mult networking, o sa ajung sa cunosc mai multe persoane decat as fi putut sa cunosc doar dand join la o singura ghilda.

Asociez asta cu Aliantele din GW1, avand un grup de ghilde, numai ca acum 'eu' sunt alianta care aduna ghildele, si pot sa aleg sa ma implic in fiecare, desi nu exista nici o obligatie ca ele sa lucreze intre ele.

Overall, i am pleased.

Later edit:
Am citit si postul omului plus niste commenturi care zic ca trebuie undivided loyalties pentru un mediu competitiv. dar idea de baza este ca in momentul in care dau join la o ghilda care are nevoie de mine in fiecare seara pentru GvG... stiu in ce ma bag. Daca nu imi convine, ma duc la o ghilda care tot face GvG competitiv, doar ca odata pe saptamana sa zicem.
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Re: GW2 - Guilds

Mesajde Cronos » 05 Sep 2011, 09:49

Meh....interesant dar nu prea. E un fel de sistem "guild whore" dupa cum imi place sa-l numesc :)
Cum era in cazul nostru cand era o alianta de romani, cu mai multe guilde orientate spre diverse activitati, fiecare dadea join si leave in functie de ce dorea, si cum se simtea. Acuma ei vor sa inlature aceasta optiune prin acest mecanism in care esti membru in toate dar nu poti sa reprezinti decat una cand dai log in. Probabil ca e aceasta tendinta spre "spart de bariere" in domeniu de old RPG rules cu care ma obisnuiesc mai greu.
Dupa cum vad eu lucrurile, dau join la mai multe guilde, evident toata partea de socializare si cunoastere a membrilor se face prin guild chat, TS, si atunci pe masura ce esti mai activ intr-o guilda, cu atat mai bine o sa cunosti lumea de acolo. Deci in mare masura tot unei guilde o sa apartii, doar ca uite cealalta guilda de pe lista mea de x guilde are nevoie de un necro, hop si eu acolo.

Cat despre undivided loyalties, trebuie, dar asta nu inseamna ca o sa existe :) Adica trebuie sa fi un fel mai impartial ca un peste auriu si sa te gandesti pe cine ajuti sa faca un quest greu: a) pe cel care e activ mai tot timpul in guilda ta si ajuta si el la randul lui, sau b) gogu alias "guild whore" care desi majoritatea timpului e in alta guilda cu toti prietenii, stie ca are pe lista o guilda pve hardcore si ca o sa-i fie mai usor sa scoata cu ei un quest. Si uite asa o sa apara Guild Leadears care o sa zica ca trebuie sa fi activ macar nustiu cate ore pe zi in guilda lor sau sa participi la nustiu ce evenimente programate, ca altfel kick...soo pana acuma nu sunt nici dezamagit, nici magulit ...e ceva intre :)

Ma mira inschimb ca nu au vorbit nimica inca de GvG....something smells fishy around here
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Re: GW2 - Guilds

Mesajde Asky » 05 Sep 2011, 14:34

nu is deacord cu parerea de ¨guild whore¨ de aceea exista sistemu de influenta, cant mai multe faci intr-o guilda cat mai multe perks primesti, iar saritu in alta guilda ca are nevoi de o anumita clasa sa faca ceva nu prea vad cum poate exista considerand ca tot contentul se poate face cu orice grupare de clase.
Este un skill based game iar dupa parerea mea daca o guilda nu ofera destule activitati sa mentina membri ocupati nu ii poate obliga sa nu plece, dar multi dupa ce plec vor sa se intoarce dintr-un motiv sau altu, mecanica de a putea shimba intre guilde la un click mi se pare superba.
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Re: GW2 - Guilds

Mesajde derbedea » 05 Sep 2011, 16:37

Mie imi place ideea, ca poti avea satisfactia de a ii da kick lui Achile din mai multe parti, de exemplu, sau de a-l vedea land kick din mai multe parti :). De cate ori in gw am fost cu sufletul impartit intre doua ghilde, una de incepatori care aveau nevoie de ajutor si una de omuleti cu care puteam sa fac chestii, ehei. BTW, Asky, nu te-am vazut demult online, cred ca ar fi cazul sa iti faci aparitia :).
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Re: GW2 - Guilds

Mesajde Altceva » 06 Sep 2011, 02:16

Eu o iau ca o idee buna dar nu cred ca o sa fie ff eficienta, cand intri intr-o gilda nu intri sa vezi cum e pe acolo intri ca ai un scop (ai niste prieten pe acolo, sti ca gilda face numai pve sau pvp....etc) si daca iti este ok in guilda respectiva nu mai stai sa cauti alte gilde incepi sa aduci u oameni buni sau praf in guilda in care esti si plus ca daca mai ai si "reputatie" cu gilda respectiva sigur numai pleci sa o iei iar de la capat.
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Re: GW2 - Guilds

Mesajde Tudy » 06 Sep 2011, 18:54

Un alt articol interesant pe tema asta, scris de Ravious de la Kill Ten Rats: http://www.killtenrats.com/2011/09/06/g ... nt-guilds/

Citat:
That buzz word in the title should get some attention. Regardless of your stance, good reader, on federalism and what any U.S. founders believed, the premise of “big government” is control. It’s this issue of control, or perceived lack of control, with the hinted Guild Wars 2 guild system that has the community in a tizzy.

The Guild Wars 2 guild system lets players join multiple guilds through their account and characters. My asura warrior, Guvvernator, might be in some main guild, an asura-only role-playing guild, a 6-man real-life friends guild, and a casual PvP guild. The full details of the guild system are missing, but I suspect that since I can rack up influence for my guilds, I would likely have to choose one guild as my “main,” which would receive the benefits of my activities. The others would be exclusive chat rooms with whatever other guild features ArenaNet is planning, hopefully like a guild bank.

The tizzy seems to come from guild-focused players that stick to one guild in their MMOs. Questions of loyalty, position, accountability are thrown in the air as soon as the system allows more freedom. This is the part I find a bit ironic and silly, all the negativity I have been saying seems to stem from a loss of pure control. I say pure control because a super-exclusive guild can require that they be the sole guild for a player. This, of course, makes said super-exclusive guild look like a bunch of snobby jerks that just want to destroy fun, and so said snobby jerks would rather have the developers require the players to submit to one overlord…err guild.

First, MMOs are for fun. My fun is different than everybody else’s fun (even if just in small degrees). One night I might just want to solo explore. Another night I might want to go have fun in a lowbie area. Everybody is different. Second, players that want dedicated fun are going to seek it out anyway. The high-end “raiders” (Guild Wars 2 has no raids) and PvP’ers are still going to mostly be dedicated and practice with their main guild to become a well-oiled machine. Having ancillary guilds for that raider that takes pity on her real life friends, or that PvP’er that wants to roleplay one night a week, has little or no negative effect. In fact, I would say giving them the freedom to branch out to other interests will strengthen their tie to the core.

The closest guild I ever had was in A Tale in the Desert. It was a small guild with only a rough half-dozen of dedicated players at any given time, but we were tight. Nights of grass picking and charcoal making were filled with jokes, real-life problems, and the current Egyptian gossip. Oh, and did I mention I was in at least 10 other guilds ranging from a deep well corporation to people that liked to share wine. It seems unlikely from a white paper standpoint that I would be more dedicated to my guild when I was in a dozen or so, yet I would say that was the case for nearly everybody in A Tale in the Desert.

The bottom line is that there will be players in Guild Wars 2 that still remain dedicated to one guild, and there will be players that act more like social butterflies flitting from one open community to the other based on the nightly gaming gods’ whims, and everyone in between. The worry that guild leaders have is that they will have to decide on some subjective amount of dedication or activity required. I don’t think anything has changed. Fun guilds with fun activities will attract fun people. Hardcore guilds with challenging activities will attract hardcore people. Casual guilds will remain casual and mega-guilds might be all the bigger.

If anything has to change it’s the guild leader’s perception that they ever had completely dedicated players. Those players might have had a character/account in another guild, or simply played other games (shocking, I know) on off nights. If there was control it was artificial to begin with.

Eu unul sunt de acord cu tot ce se zice pe-acolo. :)
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Re: GW2 - Guilds

Mesajde Cronos » 07 Sep 2011, 00:06

kill ten rats ? ^^
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Re: GW2 - Guilds

Mesajde Tudy » 07 Sep 2011, 00:49

Cronos scrie:
kill ten rats ? ^^

Da, KTR (MMO pun intended) e unul din blog-urile de gaming/MMO pe care le urmăresc. Iar Ravious, unul din autori, scrie despre GW2 și chiar are niște articole interesante.
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Re: Primele informații despre ghildele din GW2

Mesajde Tigros » 07 Sep 2011, 11:37

Foarte misto articolul ala, chiar mi-a placut :). Este si parerea mea ca ghildele ce vor sa fie in control (adica sa nu permita membrilor apartenenta la mai multe ghilde) vor avea de pierdut...

Chiar am avut un argument pe tema asta cu colegii din BOON Control :).

Si a propos de ghilde, killtenrats si Ravious, mie mi-a placut si articolul asta:
http://www.killtenrats.com/2011/08/29/g ... ng-guilds/

Ravious scrie:
As I’ve said before, with the mind crush of information coming out of PAX for Guild Wars 2 I have to focus on one feature with laser-like intensity for my sanity and ability to communicerfuffle*error*. Anyway, possibly one of the first features most players think about for Guild Wars 2 is the guilds themselves. We aren’t doing a guildless war, people!

Elixabeth, Bringer-of-Sunshine, finishes up her thoughts on day 2 at PAX, where significant news of guilds in Guild Wars 2 was released. There’s some cool stuff like gaining “influence” for a guild by doing activities, which seems to be getting more standard in MMOs, such as Rift. Guilds will be able to capture, hold, and upgrade keeps in the world v. world PvP combat zone, which again is pretty standard for an MMO with that persistent PvP zonage. I would say that these are pretty good additions, but the best news is how each player and that player’s character joins guilds.

Like the original Guild Wars, guild membership is going to be account wide. This is a slight change from their prior position of non-automatic account wide membership. The significant change is that players can add as many guilds as they like to their account. The players can then choose which guild chats and guild affiliations to select at any give time.

ArenaNet is doing some very complex things for Guild Wars 2, but I am extremely happy they are re-visiting MMO standards that might make no sense in our given MMO age, where people have more than two ‘active’ MMOs at any given time. Guilds are no longer marriages because many MMO games are simply not played in a monogamous manner. Guild are, and always have been, clubs.

In real life, I do not just belong to one club. I belong to professional societies, hobby clubs, and nerd cults, and none of these groups requires me to disown another. Even my family has various uncommon groups (in-laws, cousins, the paterfamilias branch), which somehow allow me to occasionally visit the others. It has always been a little weird to me that in the diverse playstyles of a single MMO, I was required to marry one club.

Now that Guild Wars 2 will let players belong to multiple guilds, well I know Zubon and I are dancing in the streets. No longer will patches begin to end a guild. Simply focus on the one guild that will play all the patch’s content. Real-life friends will no longer feel bummed that their hardcore buddy wants to join a real guild because hardcore buddy can now join their own small bumpkin guild without negative consequence. And of course, the obvious of having a raiding guild and a role-playing guild co-exist on the character spreadsheet will be magniflorious!

There is a caveat to behold. Player reputation will become even more fragile and worthwhile. Spout a tirade in the raiding guild, and the damage is not as easily contained. Who knows what Venn diagram of guilds other players might share with the tirading player, and how far the reputation damage will bleed. At the same time, those MMO leaders will be able to share their wisdom and referring to a multitude of masses untouched. Becoming a server leader might be a reasonable goal if the player doesn’t mind joining and keeping in touch with a couple dozen guilds.

I hope that ArenaNet takes advantage of the unshackling of the guilds, and they are able to add in specific guild projects and features that might not otherwise exist. It is a breath of fresh air to be rid of monogamous guild relationships, and I hope ArenaNet rides that wind to the horizon.

If anything else, the worry that I had in having to choose a guild is now vanquished, and I can keep old friends and make new ones without worrying what my character sheet says.

–Ravious
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Re: Primele informații despre ghildele din GW2

Mesajde stevecelrau » 07 Sep 2011, 15:50

IMHO, e o idee buna faptul ca poti sa apartii de mai multe guilde. Articolele de mai sus explica destul de bine "de ce".

Apropo, ce guilda facem noi? Ce nume ii punem? Dudele "...Insert name here...", Team Harmless, Pinguinii cu grenade, etc? Facem un poll? :mrgreen:
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Re: Primele informații despre ghildele din GW2

Mesajde Shob » 07 Sep 2011, 16:45

Dudele cu hand grenades!
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Re: Primele informații despre ghildele din GW2

Mesajde Tigros » 07 Sep 2011, 17:02

Farmecul este ca nu trebuie sa facem doar una.... putem face mai multe :).
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Re: Primele informații despre ghildele din GW2

Mesajde stevecelrau » 07 Sep 2011, 17:14

Ma gandeam sa facem o guilda cu un nume de impact, si numele respectiv (fingers crossed) sa apara pe un "keep" din WvWvW ce o sa-l cucerim :mrgreen:

...stiu, vise.... :geek:
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Re: Primele informații despre ghildele din GW2

Mesajde Cosmo » 07 Sep 2011, 21:26

Alex scrie:
Dudele cu hand grenades!


Spirits of the Dude cu hand grenades in Camelot. :D
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Re: Primele informații despre ghildele din GW2

Mesajde Shob » 07 Sep 2011, 21:34

Cosmo scrie:
Spirits of the Dude

Fuckin' brilliant!
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Re: Primele informații despre ghildele din GW2

Mesajde Asky » 07 Sep 2011, 22:49

GRAVITY ALWAYS WINS
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Re: Primele informații despre ghildele din GW2

Mesajde Tudy » 13 Sep 2011, 10:35

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Re: Primele informații despre ghildele din GW2

Mesajde Tudy » 23 Sep 2011, 21:57

Încă un articol pe care îl consider destul de reușit, de pe TalkTyria:
http://www.talktyria.net/2011/09/21/on- ... d-loyalty/

Citat:
My initial reaction to the multi-guild news from PAX-Prime was pretty harsh, I admit. Anybody who’s run a guild knows how stressful and consuming it is, and we know how players can be. So for many past and hopeful future leaders, they’ve met this news with mixed emotions, and most of us initially against it are in the vast minority. I feel a lot of it has to do with statistics; a very small number of gamers have been guild leaders in comparison to those who are simply guild members or guild-less to boot. A smaller number still have lead competitive / progressive functioning guilds, so it might be hard to understand why we feel the way we do.

I know how it is to be on both sides, as a member and a leader, and so I understand the relief that the majority of players feel. The multi-guild system is an interesting shift in power from leaders to members, perhaps humbling, but is it necessarily a good thing? Like it or not, guilds within games are a system of politics, and politics have proven that a true democracy, one in which the people are all equal in power, rarely works out well. Imagine a military in which all ranking officers have equal jurisdiction. Imagine a school where the students have the same say as teachers.

When it comes to things like this, hierarchy & bureaucracy are needed and more often than not the ‘citizens’ either don’t understand or resent the system by proxy, without realizing why and how it works. Of the games I’ve played, the most successful guilds always have a strict system of leaders and members. Some even borderline tyrannical (not that I agree with that sort of system). Strong leadership and loyalty to a cause is needed for success. And that kind of brings me to the central point:

Guild Loyalty – What & Why?
A lot of people (mostly opponents) have been throwing around the term “guild loyalty” as an argument. But what, exactly, is it and why does this system affect it?

Guild loyalty, to me, is the unspoken (or sometimes spoken) contract between members and the guild[s] they choose to represent, in which in turn for the community and services offered by the guild and its leadership, the members agree to stay ‘loyal’. By that, I mean they spend the majority of their time and contribution to that guild alone. More organized & progressed guilds will often offer services like materials, consumables, repairs, and the like on top of whatever guild perk system is natively implemented into the game. They may also provide a large community for world pvp, help through content, and a source of people to always have at hand when needed. This makes them attractive to join. In some cases, a guild’s reputation among their community may also be a draw for members.

In a traditional guild system where a person is bound to a single guild, either through their main character or account, their loyalty is in a way contracted. Forced loyalty may seem a negative thing at first, but when you think about it, it’s necessary to foster true loyalty in the long run. A player’s attention cannot be divided, and because of this he or she will get to know their fellows faster. They will suffer through progression and learning curves together, taking the bad with the good, which eventually creates the trust and bonds that helps guilds last.

The issue with a multi-guild system that allows on the fly switching is that it’s easy for a player’s attention to be divided. Everybody gets frustrated at times in a game and with fellow players. Being bound to a guild forces one to eventually shrug it off and move on. But being able to just say “screw you guys, I’m gonna go talk to my other guild” creates an imbalance.

Imagine the scenario where one guild does a dungeon run and it goes horribly wrong. Frustrated, the next night some of the players may go to do a run with another guild that goes wonderfully right. Which guild, then, do you think that player will opt to go with more often? One bad run doesn’t a terrible guild make, but when we think of the start of GW2 with hundreds of guilds per server starting on the same level and scrambling to get members, such a thing can really make a difference.

Commitment – Taking the Good with the Bad
Perhaps it’s my cynicism but my experience as a guild leader and a player has shown that gamers can be inherently selfish, vastly impatient, and even lazy at times. The former is not necessarily a bad thing; players want a good experience, and having a competent guild is part of that. I cannot blame them for favoring the guilds that offer more, and can promise a good experience. I would not jump to the assumption that this form of selfishness is a bad trait, either. Players that have a lot to offer expect a return. Trust and faith has to be earned on both ends. I have no issue with that; the best guilds have always offered a good environment for their members. But I worry that multi-guild system basically takes all the responsibility from the members away.

The point, in the long run, is commitment. If we compare a guild to relationships, it becomes easier to understand. A couple bound by marriage and common shared properties is more likely to work through problems and issues and come out stronger than a couple that is simply dating or not even living together who have the option to “opt out” pretty much whenever they want.

Likewise, if you’re bound to a guild, you’re more likely to work through issues and suffer the bad with the good rather than skip out when things are tough for a more favorable situation. If the match is not going to work, that will become obvious with time. But how can someone truly figure that out if they never have to really try to figure it out?

Being in a guild also means there is some responsibility on the members to make it the best it can be. If your guild is lagging or lacking in an area, it takes the whole to work at it to make it better. Why bother when you can just opt for the other guild who isn’t having issues?

Being given the option to take the best of guild A) and the best of guilds B) and C) without consequence is giving them the option to never commit and not have any responsibility.

And what about split opinions? Guild leaders and officers often have to make tough calls; in some cases, a guild may be entirely split down the middle on a subject, meaning no matter what someone’s gonna get pissed. And again, we may find that players unhappy with a decision can opt to switch easily instead of handling and dealing with a situation.

Represent!
My last concern is that of inherent perks and reputation, and how that will be split. We’ve got very little information on that system, but, if it’s anything like what we’ve seen from WoW and Rift, then there’s another problem to be had. I’d assume that you’d need to choose which guild to represent at a given time and that guild’s bonus’ will apply to you only when you represent them. And so a player naturally will choose to represent the guild with the best perks. By doing so, all their contributions will go to that guild which creates a snow-ball effect that will increase the gaps between guilds. A fear I have is that this system will favor populated, large guilds and hinder the small ones who can’t “level” as fast (although I have faith Anet will avoid such traps.)

In Conclusion:
Ultimately, in my mind system favors the individual, which very well may be the idea, but perhaps a little too much. It allows them to avoid responsibility & accountability for their part in making a guild a good place to be. But it also takes power away from the leaders while piling on the extra work to be appealing enough for recruitment.

I don’t argue that there is a LOT of positive aspects to it. The ability to have my main guild and a one with friends who perhaps don’t play as often is a great thing. Or the ability to have a PvP guild and a PvE guild separate from one another but easy to navigate.

But I feel guilds are not clubs; not if you want to to be cutting edge, which very well may be a moot point in GW2 since there’s no large raiding to be had. Still, they require a bit more commitment and loyalty than just a circle of friends. There could be other ways to implement social groups (or, hell, even alliances) allowing people to still easily connect with friends with other play styles and interests without encouraging flakiness.

I’ll have to see for myself. Other games have used this system without fail, so I could simply be overreacting.

Until then, the best I can do as a guild leader is what I planned to do from the start; provide enough incentive and a good community that will naturally encourage loyalty and hope for the best otherwise.
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Re: Primele informații despre ghildele din GW2

Mesajde Tudy » 03 Oct 2011, 03:53

Guild Wars 2 - Tyria Talk, episode 8 - Multiple Guilds
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Următorul

Înapoi la Discuții generale despre ghilde

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